Breakthrough and other Salvia mysteries

topic posted Sun, November 7, 2004 - 12:25 PM by  gayle
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This is a post I wrote for the private Salvia forum at www.entheology.org :

The mysteries of Salvia. Why it seems so unpredictable. Why breakthrough can be so difficult to achieve, and why then after breakthrough, one can quickly become sensitive enough to get as deep as the breakthrough on so much less (like plain leaf if the breakthrough was on extract).

Here is another mystery of Salvia. Probably only those who know first-hand how powerful Salvia can truly appreciate this mystery. Why, when Salvia is now being fairly widely marketed as a "legal high" to stoner kids out for kicks -- why are there not stories of disastrous freakouts all over the place? Contemplate what would happen if any stoner kid who took a puff of extract at a party or a street corner or the school bathroom between classes or a friend's class after school ... the scenarios for disaster are endless... imagine some young mom encharged with watching a couple of toddlers... I can think of a hundred scenarios where irresponsible Salvia use could lead to a disastrous accident.

If it did cause a fatality or accident, or even a spectacular public freakout or two, it would probably make headlines, probably sensational ones, and moves to make Salvia illegal would probably speed up rapidly.

And, judging by what I'm reading all over the net, there is no lack of irresponsible Salvia use out there.

Yet, I have been searching the web and can find not a single report of a Salvia disaster. The worst that I find is people reporting very unpleasant experiences, and saying never again. And people saying they were ripped off because the Salvia had little or no effect, and saying never again.

An interesting statistic I learned: of people who buy Salvia online, only 10% make a repeat purchase.

Consider, especially if you know how powerful Salvia is, the amazingness of the fact that Salvia disasters are not happening in spite of the fact that it is being used irresponsibly.
How is it that there are no Salvia disasters?

Well, I have one possibility to offer... what I have been coming to believe.

First, I'll tell a story out of my experience. I like going into Salvia space, but it always gives me a more or less claustrophobic feeling. I was dealing with at the time with a flare-up of a heart problem that causes chronic shortness of breath, and inability to fully breathe creates a constant shadow of panic. Salvia pulls me into her world with a strong "physical" force. I was concerned (and verbally expressed this concern to my sitter) that the shortness of breath I was feeling physically might turn the mild claustrophobia into something like panic, and then a drug-induced panic has the potential to feed on itself, leading to something very unpleasant.

When I took the Salvia, what happened was the very opposite of what one might expect. Instead of manifesting my fears, as any normal "drug" would do... when Salvia pulled me in, she was handling me with soft clouds made of goose-down. Her handling of me was so soft, so ultra-gentle.

If I ever had any doubt that there is another being here, with its own Intentionality, it disappeared then. Something, I felt, had "heard" me expressing my fears that I might panic, and was trying as hard as it possibly could to be careful so that that panic would not happen.

From that point on, I have increasingly felt the sense of learning how to communicate with this Being.

Now, none of these things is to be taken literally in any way -- it is just my own mind's translation of something that our minds could not really apprehend.

But this is what I offer for discussion.

To me, it not only comes from personal experience, but it connects the dots better than other explanations I can think of, such as materialist-reductionist explanations.

This is what I have from her:

She is intentionally trying to protect people from her power.

This is what makes breakthrough difficult.

This is also why there are not reports of Salvia disasters, because stoner kids find that Salvia doesn't work.

Breakthrough is a matter of giving permission -- yours as well as hers.

And now here, I think, is the key to the mystery of breakthrough. This is the reason why many people find a gradual approach most effective, and a minority can break through immediately.

She has told me the secret to breakthrough.

Not smoking technique, dosage, etc.

She has told me that the secret is feeling safe.

She told me why Lalu's music is Salvia music, because it is supremely music about Deep Safety.

The one factor that is critical to breakthrough, she said, is a set and setting of safety -- a mental mindset that one is safe, and a setting that feels safe.

She does not want people to freak out.

However, her judgment about who is ready and who is not is not always accurate, and she can make mistakes in both directions. She is constantly learning, however. She has told me that, even as use and knowledge of Salvia is increasing, reports of unpleasant Salvia experiences will continue to decrease, because as she gains experience herself, her ability to gauge when she should and should not allow someone entrance gets finer and finer.

She told me that the sense of "catching the wave" or "grabbing the plane" -- the moment that, if you miss it, you miss it -- that is the moment, each time, when she is asking permission of you, and if there is any hesitancy (lack of feeling of Safety) she will abort the journey.

She also told me that in no way is she literally "female," but that she intentionally presents herself as "feminine" because that communicates "gentleness" and she wants people to think of her as gentle. Because if they think of her as gentle, then they will tend to feel more safe with her, and the more you feel safe, the more you will be safe.

Not saying that dosage, smoking technique, etc., don't play a part. But the sense of safety in set and setting is, I believe, the most important element in breakthrough.

This is, I think, why the gradual approach is probably best for most people -- they feel safe as they build up a trust and familiarity. Whereas, if they were to break through without being prepared, that could create an association of fear with the Salvia experience that might always be there and prevent a feeling of Safety.

That has happened with some people, but it is relatively rare since most unprepared people get no effect at all or very little; and she tells me that as her experience increases, fewer and fewer people who approach her without preparation will be having frightening experiences; rather, more and more will feel no effect at all.

So anyway, some of my current Salvia thoughts, offered to be modified by other people's impressions and thoughts.
posted by:
gayle
Portland
  • Re: Salvia mysteries / Salvia BOOTCAMP

    Sun, November 7, 2004 - 1:58 PM
    Salvia seems like such an intimate experience.

    I think there is a force acting as sentinel at the door of the 'breakthru'. Some can't pass as easy.

    I also believe the first 15-20 sessions on Salvia is like 'SALVIA BOOTCAMP' - a place where strange, meandering experiences run rampant.

    The truth of the plant is reveiled, later, after bootcamp.

    Some common problems for newbies originate from weak products, or weak constitutions, which the plant targets.

    JMTC

    DQ
  • Re: Breakthrough and other Salvia mysteries

    Sun, November 7, 2004 - 3:18 PM
    Hi Gayle,
    interesting post. I use the tincture and smoked once. The last time I did it, someone said to me to ask a question and that they found that to be helpful. What I did was have a conversation before doing it about the feeling of ickyness, perhaps my version of your claustrophobia, of feeling something intangibly sticky and somewhat oppressive, and putting it out there that I did not want to deal with that feeling anymore. As I have taken time, as much as I need between experiences, I realized that it probably stems from my association with the aspects of myself that I find I would like to change. Well my last experience was awesome and I didn't really get that feeling, and rather had an experience that didn't require going through that stage.
    peace,
    marc
    btw, who's Lalu? I'd like to know more about this artist. thanks
    • Re: Breakthrough and other Salvia mysteries

      Sun, November 7, 2004 - 4:15 PM
      Lalu used to be on the forum where I posted that, she is a musician who creates music that is perfect for Salvia journeys. (At least if you don't mind lyrics.) You can find it at www.ic-musicmedia.com/artist_...page.php

      I got a further message that a way to promote breakthrough would be to use music like this that gives a sense that everything is safe and all is well, and listen to it a lot beforehand (possibly with green herb) getting into the feeling of safety and well-being that it offers, so that there is a feeling of comfortable familiarity associated with the music on top of the feeling of safety that it promotes. Then have the music playing to remind you that you are safe even when you might be losing all mind and memory.

      That can help promote breakthrough to the deepdeep levels. I have a stronger and stronger belief that a sense of trust and safety is the most important factor in how deep you go and even whether you go in at all. The slightest feeling of non-safety in your mindset or your environment, and she will stop.

      The first time I had breakthrough (which was the first time I smoked extract, with a trusted sitter) I lost all memory that anything had ever existed before the moment I was in in Salvia space. I was struggling to figure out if something was wrong or if everything was all right, but if you have no memory or context you have no way to judge those things. Then I sensed a Presence with me. That Presence was radiating the sense that everything was all right. I spoke aloud to the Presence, and it answered me! In actual words and sounds! I was overjoyed to be able to communicate with it! (It was my sitter.)

      When I have gone back, I can again completely forget that "this" universe exists, but I do remember that I have been in Salvia space before and, if nothing else, I remember that it has always been SAFE. (Even when it is not always comfortable, and even feels a bit claustrophobic.) I believe that my memory that it is a SAFE place is what allows me to return there, on very small doses now. I believe that the gate would close if I had any mistrust of it -- or of the situation I was in.

      Salvia does not want people to freak out. That is why she is hesitant to let people in, why she will stop if she senses anything less than 100% wholehearted permission to go further, why she (sometimes in her masculine mask of Gatekeeper) will sometimes step in and tell people they shouldn't be taking Salvia.

      But her ability to gauge people is not perfect.

      And if anyone does not like the idea that the Salvia spirit is a volitional, intentional being, I would like to know another scenario that explains Salvia's behavior so well.

      Especially the absence of disasters and horror stories from stoner kids who think Salvia is just a way to get high! Imagine the horror stories that could be happening if everyone who tried Salvia as a casual experiment at a party or something actually went into Salvia space! Think for a moment just how amazing it is that this is NOT happening. Yet, molecule by molecule, Salvinorin-A is the most powerful Plant psychactive known, measured in micrograms like LSD.

      What other psychoactive will not even ACT on you until it thinks you are ready?

      (Though, as I said, she herself admits she makes mistakes both ways).

      Try to come up with an explanation for the fact that freakouts and disasters are NOT happening all over the place, better than intentionality on Salvia's part.
      • om
        om
        offline 69

        The Illuminati Sells Salvia

        Fri, December 15, 2006 - 9:14 AM
        The above title says it all
        don't fuck with this plant
        it is not "the diviner's herb"
        it is "the demon's herb"
        its not a weird coincidence
        that salvia use was restricted
        to only a small cult
        among a few mexican tribes
        for thousands of years
        until very recently
        people knew what it was
        and what it could do
        thats why nobody fucked with it
        except necromancers and evil sorcerors
        theres a reason salvia divinorum
        never made it into mainstream spiritual practices
        it opens portals to parallel universes
        ever seen "Event Horizon?"
        that will be your fate
        if you continue to fuck with salvia
        peace and don't buy into the hype
        om
    • om
      om
      offline 69

      The Illuminati Sells Salvia

      Fri, December 15, 2006 - 9:15 AM
      The above title says it all
      don't fuck with this plant
      it is not "the diviner's herb"
      it is "the demon's herb"
      its not a weird coincidence
      that salvia use was restricted
      to only a small cult
      among a few mexican tribes
      for thousands of years
      until very recently
      people knew what it was
      and what it could do
      thats why nobody fucked with it
      except necromancers and evil sorcerors
      theres a reason salvia divinorum
      never made it into mainstream spiritual practices
      it opens portals to parallel universes
      ever seen "Event Horizon?"
      that will be your fate
      if you continue to fuck with salvia
      peace and don't buy into the hype
      om
  • Re: Breakthrough and other Salvia mysteries

    Sun, November 7, 2004 - 6:04 PM
    I find the onset very nerve wracking, tense. Maybe that is what you mean by the warning. Once I'm off, it seem OK, very intense, but peaceful, and like I'm going in the right direction.
    Still not sure if I know what I'm doing, it's like jumping off a street car, or something.
    • Re: Breakthrough and other Salvia mysteries

      Sat, November 27, 2004 - 4:59 AM
      The onset for me, in my initial experience, was a little jarring. We smoked some extract and it felt like my body immediately turned inside out, and POOF! I was in a continuum of space and time where the distant past was merged with the present. I saw vines on the periphery of my mind's visual field, moving in a circular motion, and I could hear, then sense, then see a black jaguar coming towards me. I was having quite a fine experience from that point on, with some sort of Mayan undercurrent to the whole thing, except that my SO's experience was intruding on mine.

      He didn't do any reading on the subject of using Salvia, since he's done all manner of psychedelics before he must have assumed it would be just another trip. Apparently he was experiencing some of the less pleasant physical effects, like intense sweating, anxiousness, etc, which made him unable to get into the experience. He wasn't talking, but I could sense his discomfort and I asked Salvia if I could check on him for a bit and she let me come and go, basically.

      I don't know for sure if I experienced breakthru or not, with his inability to settle into Salvia distracting me, but it made a few things clear to me:
      - set and setting, as well as intention, is of paramount importance before using Salvia
      - using it with a sitter, or else someone experienced with Salvia is much preferable than doing it with an uneducated novice
      - smoking it causes a short trip; I would have liked to be in Salvia space longer than the 30 minutes I was in it

      Next time, he can be my sitter and then I'll do it for him, until we're both familar with what Salvia space is like.

      One interesting side effect of the whole thing was for a couple hours after the initial experience wore off, I kept having visual effects that felt like two separate dimensions trying to meld together and look "normal" to my regular consciousness. Strange but kinda fascinating at the same time...

      ~Juliana~
      • Re: Breakthrough and other Salvia mysteries

        Sat, November 27, 2004 - 11:07 PM
        "I don't know for sure if I experienced breakthru or not, with his inability to settle into Salvia distracting me, but it made a few things clear to me:
        - set and setting, as well as intention, is of paramount importance before using Salvia
        - using it with a sitter, or else someone experienced with Salvia is much preferable than doing it with an uneducated novice
        - smoking it causes a short trip; I would have liked to be in Salvia space longer than the 30 minutes I was in it

        Next time, he can be my sitter and then I'll do it for him, until we're both familar with what Salvia space is like."

        When you have breakthrough, you will know it.

        All the rest quoted above is very wise.

        Set and setting count very strongly. It is impossible to overstate the importance of a SAFE feeling mindset and setting and a sitter with whom you feel comfortable and safe. It's not even them being experienced with Salvia that is important as much as their feeling RELAXED and at EASE with the whole thing, Salvia makes you very seneitive to that.
        • Re: Breakthrough and other Salvia mysteries

          Fri, December 15, 2006 - 10:58 AM
          My usual setting: Lying on a recliner in my dimly lit living room, rested and ready, with some gentle music playing in my headphones. A large quid or some honey tincture is resting in my mouth, with more leaves close at hand to prolong the session if it is called for. My body is totally relaxed, and my eyes remain closed. Besagement is gentle at the onset, but escalates rapidly until it takes over completely. I enjoy visiting with Salvia this way, for one or two hours in Eternity. There are no worries - no fear, discomfort or anxiety - there is only comfort and peace as my personality merges with all of the events and sensations taking place around me. Gradually, my body goes to sleep as my mind travels with Salvia. Later, as Salvia is leaving, the physical sensations in my body feel like I am waking up, although my mind has been active for hours.
        • Re: Breakthrough and other Salvia mysteries

          Fri, December 15, 2006 - 4:07 PM
          these are definately very interesting thoughts as to the nature of breakthrough and mainstream misuse. I have noticed a connection between your experience and your intentions. My breakthrough came with my second use, after a lot of reading on salvia, at home in a dark silent room with a very trusted sitter with the same intentions as myself. I was embraced by salvia and allowed to enter her universe.

          I have observed people with a more "party" intent than my own that seem to have trouble getting anything other than a funny heavy feeling.
  • om
    om
    offline 69

    The Illuminati Sells Salvia

    Fri, December 15, 2006 - 9:13 AM
    The above title says it all
    don't fuck with this plant
    it is not "the diviner's herb"
    it is "the demon's herb"
    its not a weird coincidence
    that salvia use was restricted
    to only a small cult
    among a few mexican tribes
    for thousands of years
    until very recently
    people knew what it was
    and what it could do
    thats why nobody fucked with it
    except necromancers and evil sorcerors
    theres a reason salvia divinorum
    never made it into mainstream spiritual practices
    it opens portals to parallel universes
    ever seen "Event Horizon?"
    that will be your fate
    if you continue to fuck with salvia
    peace and don't buy into the hype
    om
  • om
    om
    offline 69

    The Illuminati Sells Salvia

    Fri, December 15, 2006 - 9:17 AM
    The above title says it all
    don't fuck with this plant
    it is not "the diviner's herb"
    it is "the demon's herb"
    its not a weird coincidence
    that salvia use was restricted
    to only a small cult
    among a few mexican tribes
    for thousands of years
    until very recently
    people knew what it was
    and what it could do
    thats why nobody fucked with it
    except necromancers and evil sorcerors
    theres a reason salvia divinorum
    never made it into mainstream spiritual practices
    it opens portals to parallel universes
    ever seen "Event Horizon?"
    that will be your fate
    if you continue to fuck with salvia
    peace and don't buy into the hype
    om
    • Re: The Illuminati Sells Salvia

      Fri, December 15, 2006 - 2:52 PM
      Flakey, could you please do us a favor and delete this person? He is quite destructive on several threads.
      • Re: The Illuminati Sells Salvia

        Fri, December 15, 2006 - 3:18 PM
        I don’t think he should be deleted … he may be genuine and looking for answers after being exposed to Salvia
        • Re: The Illuminati Sells Salvia

          Fri, December 15, 2006 - 5:52 PM
          Well, he admitted he was scared of salvia and his writing sounds a bit paranoid.

          For me he seems a great example of someone who should NOT smoke salvia.

          Gayle:

          Safety is of concern and I think if one is not ready to accept one's own fear, then that non-acceptance--aka denial--twists the natural emotion of fear into kind of rejected demon, where that emotional essence doesn't go away, but keeps coming back (because it is part of oneself) looking to dislodge the judgements the mind has against it and thus find acceptance.

          I understand that fear itself is not the problem, but the judgements against it are what makes it so uncomfortable. Input from the emotions is vital to knowing one's truth, and when one is tripping the fear is best accepted, otherwise it will haunt the trip, creating outside oneself the reflection of denied fear, which can be much more scary.

          In short: developing acceptance for one's emotional reactions (and expected reactions) during tripping creates the safety and trust with oneself, and hopefully find alignment with Spirit, if one has the intention to heal. This is accepting oneself for what and who one is, and with practice, one realizes that there is nothing in one'self that is not acceptable.

          -il divino
        • Re: The Illuminati Sells Salvia

          Sat, December 16, 2006 - 7:50 AM
          << he may be genuine and looking for answers after being exposed to Salvia >>

          Good point. I overreacted.
          • Re: The Illuminati Sells Salvia

            Sat, December 16, 2006 - 8:55 AM
            Re: <Before that, I had smoked lots of pot, smoked opium once, and knew what being high was about. These ARE gateway drugs to the HARDER STUFF, like salvinorin A.>

            What a crock, Scal. Let me ask you this: What *are* you doing this for? Personifying the plant inteligence is the best way for us wee little social monkeys to learn, because that's the way we are. If your fundamental impulse is an antisocial one, why don't you just skip the whole thing and move on to the hard, worthless shit (i.e. "drugs")? Then you can spare us this edgy, high-horse, more-hardcore-than-you posturing.
            • Unsu...
               

              Re: The Illuminati Sells Salvia

              Sat, December 16, 2006 - 9:30 AM
              Crock? I don’t think so.

              I smoke standardized 20x Salvia divinorum for many “reasons”. I enjoy light trips to unwind after a stressful day. Slightly stronger trips are good to get my mojo flowing around the ladies ;) Ever stronger trips are useful for oracle work, working on memories, lucid dreaming, creative thinking, meditation, casting intention for future events. This is all outside of Void. Within Void, it’s all about being. Just… being. Che Sera, Sera. Though I would like to wonder around a bit... in due time.

              To me, personifying the “plant intelligence” is limiting. There is so much more you will miss if you do just that. See beyond the hype and superstitions...

              I am challenging the way each and every one of you thinks about SD. Casting fractal monkey wrenches into your trips. So is Om, and many others I’m sure..erus

              Aquabug, if you don’t like it, that’s the point.

              The cat is out of the bag. Here kitty kitty…
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: Breakthrough and other Salvia mysteries

    Sat, December 16, 2006 - 3:26 AM
    Om, keep it up. We need your persona on this tribe. Some of us just don’t understand your intention, that’s all.lla

    I read gayle’s post and have this to say:

    First of all, I do not experience “Ska Maria Pastora” or “Lady Salvia” in any of my SD trips. Never. To me this is just a form of mental programming, or a meme let loose in the world. But I can imagine why, it does provide a comforting entity to engage with… especially if she’s hot (hosted.met-art.com/Trial_me...31_18.jpg ). But what if “Lady Salvia” is a daemon in disguise? I’ve seen the most fucked up entities during my standardized 20x Salvia divinorum trips (e.g., scary clowns, giants, elves, fairies, daemons). I once whispered during a trip, “Let me see Satan… let me see…” and whala! This buzzing entity rolled up from the floor and made its presence… but I don’t think it was Satan. Something I created, like how I believe “Lady Salvia” is created. Possibly a latent talent we are developing.

    Reverse tolerance of salvinorin A, to me, leads to one simple thing: Complete and utter insanity! A half bowl of stand. 20x is all that I need now to have a total out of 3-body trip. Btw, I’ve just passed my 150th trip with stand. 20x. Am I crazie?

    I don’t believe that smoking SD would lead to many disaster trips. Most people are not “set up” to have worth-while trips on SD. One reason, short term memory animating during trips. If you’ve noticed this, this could be quite irritating and one may not want to make this happen again. Why the fuck is my mom, my boss, and my best friend doing that! OH MY GOD! Another reason, one can create entities during a strong trip… and many people don’t even know how to do, or control, that… so poof… doors becoming wondering eyes, a hand reaches out of your bed to grab you, hot shower water begins to suffocate, trees up-root and seething try to stomp you out, etc., etc.. Lastly, you can hardly move when tripping strong. I’ve only noticed people moving when on threshold or light trips, usually because of the last two reasons. I’ve had such strong trips that I felt I died… just a corpse on my bed. Luckily our body doesn’t die when we sleep either ;)

    To say that “she” is trying to protect people from her power is UTTER BULLSHIT! You are afraid gayle, plain and simple. It’s in your mind, not in our minds. I feel sad for you that you think this, because boy, you are sure missing out ;)

    Smoke a full bowl of standardized 20x Salvia divinorum, and you’ll breakthrough… I promise… unless you have zero sensitivity to salvinorin A.

    I broke through immediately in 2001… with a full bowl of stand. 5x. A trip I’ll never forget, like loosing my virginity. Before that, I had smoked lots of pot, smoked opium once, and knew what being high was about. These ARE gateway drugs to the HARDER STUFF, like salvinorin A.

    Lastly gayle, your secrets are exactly that… your secrets. They may not work for us. I know they don’t help me. To me, these entities like courage, strength, endurance… they want to see someone worthy of shedding knowledge upon. They want to party with you! In Void of course.

    I suggest people start of with smoking stand. 10x, then after a few months begin smoking stand. 20x. That should pry open the Void pretty well. Crystals of salvinorin A, to me, are only for true connoisseurs.

    Bon appetite

    QED
  • Re: Breakthrough and other Salvia mysteries

    Sat, December 16, 2006 - 9:57 AM
    I would have to agree with you on this. A breakthrough experience is a beautiful thing when it happens. I have found through my experiences with salvia (first-hand or second-hand) that a Breakthrough experience is not really a hard thing to achieve. The problem I feel is that salvia is a sacrament, so unless treated with the right respect it will not give you a breakthough experience. i.e. if your just doing it to get high, or as you said a "stoner kid" taking a puff in the corner, you wont breakthrough. Set and Setting is very important with salvia, but set and setting all depends on the person. For instance, i know people that can do salvia just about anywhere and they will have a breakthrough experience, although these people are not stupid enough to go do it out in the open. Another thing i'd like to mention is that from my experience, when you breakthrough with salvia it is very much like a dream. A very simple dream, or in some cases Very complex. But i have never seen anybody come back saying it was a bad experience. I've think the bad experiences come out of that period right before you breakthrough, or in the case of the "Stoner kid" the part of salvia he will be stuck in because he doesn't breakthrough. it is a very very strong feeling you have before you breakthrough, but IMO once you breakthrough you are basically beyond that feeling and are left to percieve.
    • Re: Breakthrough and other Salvia mysteries

      Mon, December 18, 2006 - 8:05 PM
      Your article was right on Gayle-
      I put off experimenting with it until i was in a spirit place to do so, and i read many, many papers on it and different perceptions that go with it. So i waited until my life was clear, my mind clear of garbage. I prepared my safe space in my bedroom, so i could lay comfortably, and put a native ceremony album on to listen to- gentle icaro's. I smoked some herb to relax me and my nervousness/expectation. And asked politely and sincerely for her to guide me and be good to me in the process. 60 seconds later i was in a complete universe, having not a clue i had a body or layed on a bed in this one. I have taken multiples of 1000mg. pure LSD more times than i could conceivably count, (all of it good experiences) and i found Lady Salvia to be the strongest psychadelic experience i have had. And everytime since i have found myself in the same wonderful, powerful, noumenal universe. So i would say your advice should be well considered- the result is well worth the effort to make it a wonderful experience.
      • Re: Breakthrough and other Salvia mysteries

        Tue, December 19, 2006 - 8:42 AM
        <I have taken multiples of 1000mg. pure LSD> Uh, MICROgrams? Careful...
        • om
          om
          offline 69

          Re: Breakthrough and other Salvia mysteries

          Tue, December 19, 2006 - 10:04 AM
          This "Lady Salvia" shit is nonsense.
          It's your mind creating illusions.
          I've smoked Salvia over 200 times,
          from regular Oaxaca leaves
          to stuff that borders on 60x standardized extract
          and not once did I meet "Lady Salvia"
          How do you know that the entity behind Salvia is a female?
          All I ever felt when I smoked Salvia's corpse
          was Cosmic Power. It is an untamed Force of the Cosmos, and nothing more.
          We want to add human attributes to the unknown, so that we feel comfortable.
          This is the reason why we depict all our Gods and Goddesses as humans.
          Salvia is something that is totally beyond human comprehension, so why
          would Salvia appear as some 20-foot tall green woman made of leaves
          or some other such nonsense?
          Salvia just keeps you in The Dream longer. It makes your mind Dream.
          It gives your mind all these beautiful, and sometimes terrifying, dreams.
          You cannot understand the nature of Mind, or Reality for that matter, by
          interpreting your dreams. This is why western psychology has continued
          to be an utter failure. The psychologists themselves, for the most part,
          are a bunch of psychopaths. Because they try and study the mind
          in order to arrive at truth. Truth doesn't arise from studying your mind,
          because if you've ever really studied your mind, you will find that
          the nature of your mind is to create dreams and fantasies, and it will
          continue to do so endlessly. You have to go BEYOND mind in order
          to arrive at truth.
          Omkara
          • Re: Breakthrough and other Salvia mysteries

            Tue, December 19, 2006 - 10:49 AM
            Salvia is feminine not necessarily female. There is a difference.

            What you have to understand as well is that we are communicating in English right now. That limits how we can communicate. I believe it was RAW that said “it’s a lot easier talking about and understanding the theory of relativity in Swahili then it is English” … If there was a language that would completely explains the Salvia experience then we probably wouldn’t be here

            • om
              om
              offline 69

              Re: Breakthrough and other Salvia mysteries

              Tue, December 19, 2006 - 11:20 AM
              "Salvia is feminine not necessarily female. There is a difference."

              I'm aware of this. Like I said, all I ever felt when I smoked Salvia
              was Cosmic Power. Never once did I feel a "feminine" presence
              nor a "masculine" presence. Salvia Divinorum transcends
              gender attributes, It goes *Totally Beyond* categories such as
              feminine and masculine. To put Salvia in a box like that, to me,
              is insane.

              "What you have to understand as well is that we are communicating in English right now. That limits how we can communicate."

              I don't have any problems getting my point across.
        • Re: Breakthrough and other Salvia mysteries

          Tue, December 19, 2006 - 12:09 PM
          I am now 42, the majority of my lsd use was in my late twenties, rest assured i am here to tell the tale! Pure lsd is of course not the same as regular street trash- never had any bad experiences out of the couple hundred of doses i took. thank you for the sentiment tho'.
  • Re: Breakthrough and other Salvia mysteries

    Tue, December 19, 2006 - 11:56 AM
    Thanks too for the post Gayle. I was fortunate to have an 'old timer', a guide with whom I have done many ayahuasca journeys sit and coach me as I chewed the raw leaves until I was totally in Salvia's arms. Like ayahusca, no where to hide past that point, just to relax, trust, enjoy the amazing and immediate lessons...demons and all. I believe, as in the bardos, it is all a reflection of my own mind, samsara and nirvana all reflections. I love Saliva' s clarity, not to mention the lack of the insense effects of ayahuasca. After asking the two plants/medicines, I did some combining of Salvia and ayahuasca my last visit to the jungle and they were compatable for me. I believe very similar energies and both beloved teachers...for me.
    • om
      om
      offline 69

      Re: Breakthrough and other Salvia mysteries

      Tue, December 19, 2006 - 7:59 PM
      to travis:

      hi. I only tried lsd twice, from what I understand, it was much
      stronger in your day? (when you were in your 20's...)
      i just thot i'd add here that i tried a few tiny squares
      of white blotter my first time, which i really liked, but
      it felt to "chemically", know what I mean? And that
      i kinda felt poisened, not badly, just slightly.
      second and last time was blue gel tab, i did not
      like that one tho, cuz it put my thoughts into a circuit
      which continued for hours, like a looped mind-fuck lol.
      glad i came out of it.
      prob tho the blue gel tabs were not made correctly.
      but i did like the white blotter, but not something i would do again
      om
      • Re: Breakthrough and other Salvia mysteries

        Tue, December 19, 2006 - 8:16 PM
        i was raised in an oppressive policemans household, so i felt the need to majorly depart reality, and definetly, to not need to be in control, so
        i think i was predisposed to its advantages. I agree that it has that kind if 'edge', but i have always been comfortable swimming alone, so to speak. It was an essential of survival. To be honest with you, i know you obviously dislike salvia- and you are entitled, the reason i like it, is that it is (for my head and spirit) as profound as lsd or higher amounts of mushrooms, but as i get older, i appreciate that the jorney can be an hour, instead of that 6-12 hour ride. And while the concentrate gives strong experiences, i have been using it in just a small bit- just enouph to 'shimmer', as an aid to my dreaming (i take a required med that steals my dreaming) leaving strong experiences for when the setting is right. I personally beleive that all drugs/substances show you one road into the other worlds, but after you have traveled them enouph, you do not need the roadmap (substance) to find your way to that place, does that make sense? I am thankful for the things i learned with lsd, but i feel no need to take it nowdays..... but it all comes down to- some of us 'vibe' with some things, while others do not. It sounds like you are very sensetive to chemical comopounds, perhaps with your experiences you are the type of person that can experience the other worlds with only small alterations in light and sound frequencies. I discovered peruvian whistling vessels the other day, and i simply was in another world within 5 seconds- no drugs-no plants- just this peculiar and penetrating sound, it was awesome.
        • om
          om
          offline 69

          Re: Breakthrough and other Salvia mysteries

          Tue, December 19, 2006 - 10:16 PM
          "I was raised in an oppressive policemans household, so i felt the need to majorly depart reality, and definetly, to not need to be in control, so i think i was predisposed to its advantages."

          Although our upbringings were different, I can totally relate bro. My dad does something for a living which i do not agree with, espciallly cuz my mother is involved. hes a doctor who writes scripts for people, my mother included, and some of his best friends include deputy and sherrif and cheif of polices, so you know, i was under the microscope my whole life!!! but i love my pops hes a great guy.

          "I agree that it has that kind if 'edge', but i have always been comfortable swimming alone, so to speak. It was an essential of survival."

          yes, in my short life i have also discovered that being alone generates Awareness. My hapiness does not depend on other people. My being craves a strong relationship with The Absolute.

          "To be honest with you, i know you obviously dislike salvia- and you are entitled"

          Its not that i don't like it, its just that I think that, well from my experiences, that it is not necessary for soul-exploration / Enlightenment, and that it can actually hinder the process if one is not careful. Not that you or anyone else here is not careful, just that i know of its powers and what it can do, just as you do, and that kind of power can be a very dangerous thing, if not handled properly.

          "the reason i like it, is that it is (for my head and spirit) as profound as lsd or higher amounts of mushrooms"

          Yes, I find it INTENSELY more powerful than anything I have ever experienced. Maybe I'm just young, or inexperienced, or
          immature, but its just that I like being able to be the master, and even though Salvia has shown me The Beauty of being alive in this crazy existence, I like being the master of my fate, and I feel that Salvia can really warp / alter my destiny. I feel like it really set me back on my spiritual path...but then again...i know, here comes the contradiction...it also brought me into The Light...so it showed me the full spectrum, like everthing is everything...but the Knowledge came at a price that my soul never bargained for, that I was not ready for, that like Scal said, it is a communication device, like an Astral CB Radio, and you never know who's on the other end of the line...

          "but as i get older, i appreciate that the jorney can be an hour, instead of that 6-12 hour ride."

          Yes, i know what you mean. I purposely set aside time for those all-nighters...that last well into the next morning lol :-)

          "And while the concentrate gives strong experiences, i have been using it in just a small bit- just enouph to 'shimmer', as an aid to my dreaming (i take a required med that steals my dreaming) leaving strong experiences for when the setting is right."

          Yeah certain chems / meds can try and rob you of your Essence, but really Nothing can, just maybe set us back a little bit. I understand totally where you're coming from. Yeah ive noticed that Salvia can be a great lucid dreamer aid / astral projection teacher its just that the reason I am not for using it is cuz theres mad dangers involved...getting shot thru the Cosmic Cannon..."round and round it goes, where it stops, no-one knows, lol..." who knows where i end up, i dont even know what happens when i smoke it, well my consciousness retains the knowledge like a blueprint of where i've been, but its sometimes hard for me to access it all, and takes a VERY long time to really understand what happened to me and where i've really been, know what i mean?

          "I personally beleive that all drugs/substances show you one road into the other worlds, but after you have traveled them enouph, you do not need the roadmap (substance) to find your way to that place, does that make sense?"

          ya. that makes total sense. Like my friends who smoke ganja constantly, It has already shown me what I need to see, but they insist that i keep smoking it, but I already received and processed Ganja's lesson...

          "I am thankful for the things i learned with lsd, but i feel no need to take it nowdays..... but it all comes down to- some of us 'vibe' with some things, while others do not."

          Ya, on lsd i got cool melting walls and colorful lights to night skies changing colors with my pulse, to rotating floors smeared with cosmic energy to bedsheets dancing like cobras coming up from the basket by the guy playing the Indian flute lol... and some friends got total schizophrenia for ten hours, running around naked outside their homes for hours, to people deciphering the mysteries of the Universe...

          "It sounds like you are very sensetive to chemical comopounds, perhaps with your experiences you are the type of person that can experience the other worlds with only small alterations in light and sound frequencies."

          you are right, and my friends call me "lightweight" just cuz im more sensitive than they are, but those people have no spiritual background and they only use substances to get fucked up and don't allow the teachings of these higher beings to sink deep into their souls.

          "I discovered peruvian whistling vessels the other day, and i simply was in another world within 5 seconds- no drugs-no plants- just this peculiar and penetrating sound, it was awesome."

          Have you heard of R. Carlos Nakai? He's a native american flute master from the u.s. southwest, try and get the song "world of rain" if you can, once my Limewire is up I can email it to you, my friend plays a triple chambered native amer flute and it sounds sooo eerie and beautiful...i totally feel what you're saying man, i want to get into music myself but am not that gifted musiclaly, my only real talent is writing rhymes / poetry and that even im still working on... peace be to you
          om
          • Re: Breakthrough and other Salvia mysteries

            Tue, December 19, 2006 - 11:15 PM
            Om-
            Thanks for spending the time to respond to me in a detailed manner, i understand you much better, and respect what you had to say. I would love an email of the music you mentioned, i have been appreciating music of that sort much more lately. I do know what you mean about the blueprint thing, it seems only about 35 years or so was i able to 'bring it home'. Because, what good is spiritual energy if you have no ready means to access it and put it to constructive use. And i do know what you mean about others taking substances for the get off factor, with no
            spiritual cultivation accompanying it. I think your feelings are on and natural, it really is not everyone that shamanistic journeying is suited for.
            And some of these things really are for spiritual cultivation, and while anyone can take anything, those who neglect the spiritual have only themselves to blame for the truckwreck, so i guess i would concur with you, some people have truckwrecks with salvia, and many other things. This is one of the products of a consumer society, these substances should be introduced to people from the culture from which they come- and given in the proper context. Some spriritual beings want to light the torch themselves, without the benefit of elders, and your observations about effects not anticipated is respectfully noted. I can understand wanting to be the master- i have felt that way myself - and i may again - but right now for my being is happy with kinda taking a middle ground- a little of each.
            Thanks again for taking the time for a good response- peace- travis

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