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best way to take/use tincture?

topic posted Wed, August 3, 2005 - 4:49 PM by  eric
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I just got my hands on some and I have had experience with salvia in the past and wanted to try the tincture. The kind I got says that you can mix it w/ water, 1 equal part to one equal part to lessen the taste. Well, I did that and nothing happened to me.

And yeah, the stuff tastes just terrible to me to the point where I almost felt ill.

Any advice???


thanks!
posted by:
eric
Iowa
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  • Re: best way to take/use tincture?

    Thu, August 4, 2005 - 3:41 PM
    Hmmm. This is my experience as well. I held the foul stuff under my tongue for half an hour or more and all I got out of it was a mouthful of spit. Although, other people have reported quite amazing effects. This is Zoe7's favorite way to do salvia (or at least it was). Don't know if you're familiar with his work. For me, though, there is no doubt that the concentrated extract smoked through a waterpipe with a concentrated hear source is the way to go. This is the only way I know of to produce the short-acting, fast-onset, DMT-like experience that salvia is capable of, although it scares the shit out of me.

    Am interested in other people's comments on the tincture method though? Or perhaps the quid method...
    • Re: best way to take/use tincture?

      Sat, August 6, 2005 - 12:13 AM
      First off, use honey instead of water. It tastes better, and, whereas water dilutes the effect, honey is reputed to actually strengthen it. Not sure if this is exactly true, but hey, anything that cuts that bitter taste is an improvement! Just don't use too much honey.

      Second, you have got to be shitting me. You didn't feel anything? Either you got some bad tincture, or.. well.. that's pretty much the only thing I can imagine. It takes a few minutes (8 for me) to take effect, but it can be every bit as powerful as smoking, provided you take enough. I have not been brave enough to take more than 2 droppers yet, because it lasts a hell of a lot longer than smoking, and having that experience for half an hour or more isn't something I'm totally ready for. Maybe soon, though. :-)

      If you're really brave, don't dilute it at all. Just don't send it straight under the tongue. I did this, and my mouth was raw for a couple of days. When they say the alcohol burns, they aren't joking. It's like scalding yourself with hot coffee or something.

      One thing no one seems to mention about tincture is its aphrodisiac effect. Anyone else noticed this?
      • J
        J
        offline 33

        Re: best way to take/use tincture?

        Sat, August 6, 2005 - 10:37 AM
        i tried the 'sage emerald essence' tinture. it seems that i am not sensive to it. i do not fully know yet. i took some every 10 minutes untill i felt the effects. i ended up consuming two thirds of the bottle (yeh! LOL) before i had a mild experience.

        i am wondering how effective that tincture is (and its epensive). maybe there is a far more effective product around. i am now experimenting with making my own tincture, but maybe i am wasting my time as i may not be sensitive to be besaged by the sage in the fist place. i feel a world has past me by (sad).

        i feel that if the method does work for one, it's one of the most powerful self descovery tools around. i must say that i am not attracted to smoking it and going through the confusing wirlwind effect that it has on many people. it seems detrimental the self decovery/learning process; but maybe i will end up smoking salvia if the tincture is not effective with me. i will be absolutely sure first though.

        regards
        J
        • Re: best way to take/use tincture?

          Sat, August 6, 2005 - 11:21 AM
          www.spiritplants.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php

          EE and most tinc IMHO are near satuation point. But when I made my homemade microwave stuff some solute (undissolved solids) was within the tinc and that had some added magic I believe. I always heat it a little just before consuming.

          My tinc was 1/3 the price of EE so I made bigger doses.
          I avoided the undersoft of the tongue as stated in the URL above. The back of the throat worked great.

          Myth: tinc is weaker than smoking.
      • Re: best way to take/use tincture?

        Sat, August 6, 2005 - 6:51 PM
        thanks for the advice David, Ill try that. Yeah, I agree with you, the tinc under the tongue is bad bad bad, I tried it last night with just one dropper and it was like being on fire; I had to spit it all out seconds later.

        Ive tried watering it down, 2 droppers of water to 2 droppers of tinc and mixed it in a glass and just drank it. All that did was give me stomach cramps for about 2 hours; not good either.
        • Unsu...
           

          Re: best way to take/use tincture?

          Sun, August 7, 2005 - 6:42 PM
          well i haven't tried it yet but salvinorum A. the main constituent that gives the "desired" effect is absorbed through the tongue/mouth from what I've read. you'd keep it in your mouth/umder your tongue for about 30 mins and u can either spit it out or swallow it. If it gave you a stomach ache then maybe you should spit it out next time aftere swishing it around your mouth? a suggestion. I got my info from:
          www.sagewisdom.org/usersguide.html
          • Unsu...
             

            Re: best way to take/use tincture?

            Sun, August 7, 2005 - 6:44 PM
            also is there a way to smoke a tincture by putting it in tobacco or another smokable product and of course letting it dry?
            • Re: best way to take/use tincture?

              Sun, August 7, 2005 - 10:22 PM
              I thought about that also; I have considered dipping my cigarette in the tinc and letting it dry for a bit then smoking the cig. itself.

              I wonder if that would work. I will try it and let you know.
              • Re: best way to take/use tincture?

                Mon, August 8, 2005 - 9:50 AM
                It doesn't make much sense to me to smoke the tincature. The whole purpose of Tincature is to avoid the inhalation of smoke in the first place. You might as well just smoke an extract.
                • Unsu...
                   

                  Re: best way to take/use tincture?

                  Mon, August 8, 2005 - 5:09 PM
                  Well maning a tincture can become multi purposed then
                  if the extract did in fact work, I'd assume it would be less harsh than smoking salvia by itself. What do you mean by extract? As in Salvinorin A? That another good lead to experimentation.
                  Thanks all :)
                  xo
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: best way to take/use tincture?

                    Mon, August 8, 2005 - 7:57 PM
                    The source:

                    www.bouncingbearbotanicals.com/et...tml

                    5x, 10x, 20x: this is the strength, comparable to smoking raw leaves. They extract the Salvinorin-A (active ingredient) and then spray it back on ground leaves.

                    My advice: start with the 10x, and use it sparingly. About 1 big hit your first time, and definitely have a spotter. Some people (not naming names) have been known to get up and walk around in a stupor, sometimes leading to injury.

                    Contrary to popular belief, higher strength does not make it less-predictable/more-dangerous, as long as you know what you're doing. It's actually nicer to get the higher grade, because it forces you to smoke less plant matter to get the same effect. And the way this stuff is harsh, that's a good thing.

                    One more tip: You'll certainly want to cough within the first few seconds of a toke. Just keep hitting it, and push that urge away, and you'll find it goes away in a couple of seconds. Then, as if by magic, it's not painful at all. It's strange, but it happens to me the same way every time.

                    Happy trails!
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: best way to take/use tincture?

                    Mon, August 8, 2005 - 8:37 PM
                    I think by extract he means a 5X or 10X or potentially higher extract of salvinorin A that is mixed with the dried leaves. This seemed to be the most common form it was available in back when I was purchasing salvia. Salvinorin A, although apparently somebody is selling it on e-bay, is going to be nearly impossible for you to work with, unless you have a scale that can weight out micrograms, which is highly unlikely. And I wouldn't reccomend that you try to eyeball it, as you will surely end up with far more than you need, which is not really a good thing.
                    • Re: best way to take/use tincture?

                      Tue, August 9, 2005 - 3:07 PM
                      You could always try measured dilution. Dig:

                      Get yourself some grain alcohol (95% ethanol). Weigh a crystal out. For this example, say it's 100mg (1/10th of a gram). Now measure out 100ml of the grain alcohol. Dissolve the crystal in the alcohol. Make sure it dissolves completely. Now simply measure out the liquid into 1ml doses before using. That should give you 1mg (1000mcg) in each dose. To ingest, you could either use the oral method, or let the alcohol evaporate and smoke it, as previously discussed.

                      NOTE: Although this method should work, I have not researched the amounts, so these numbers are just examples. The 100ml of grain alcohol should be a manageable amount, but I don't know the dosage of pure Salvinorin-A required. Can anyone else enlighten us as to what the correct ratio should be?

                      In any case, this is probably far more trouble than it's worth. But as a stereotypical techie, I like solving problems. :-)
            • Re: best way to take/use tincture?

              Mon, August 8, 2005 - 7:49 PM
              "you'd keep it in your mouth/umder your tongue for about 30 mins and u can either spit it out or swallow it."

              If you can keep that stuff in your mouth for 30 minutes, I'll hand you a medal. First off, your mouth would explode from the saliva you produce. Second, it's bitter, although it's more tolerable after a few minutes. Third, you'll start feeling the effects after about 8-10 minutes, and if you can keep a mouthful of liquid held in check after 20 minutes of peak experience, you deserve said medal. Lastly, tincture is deep emerald green and, as someone else once wrote, will "stain like the mark of Cain." So, should you not endure points 1-3 above, you'll remember it for a long time, eyeing your stained clothing, carpet, and skin. ;-)

              "also is there a way to smoke a tincture by putting it in tobacco or another smokable product and of course letting it dry?"

              I've heard this works, although I've yet to try it. It's roughly comparable to the way they make the enhanced smokeable form (5x, 10x, etc.). The alcohol will evaporate, leaving the Salvinorin-A behind. But I gotta tell you, this is an expensive way to get a smokeable form, unless you make your own tincture on-the-cheap. After all, you can get 3 grams of 20x (non-standardized) for only $45. That's enough for about 60 good doses, at an economical price.

              Oh, and definitely let it dry if you try this. Nothing like lighting a bowl of grain alcohol to deprive you of your eyebrows. ;-)
        • Re: best way to take/use tincture?

          Mon, August 8, 2005 - 7:41 PM
          "Yeah, I agree with you, the tinc under the tongue is bad bad bad, I tried it last night with just one dropper and it was like being on fire; I had to spit it all out seconds later."

          That's too bad. If you can endure it, it's worth it. But the downside is that when your mouth burns so badly, you end up producing a lot of saliva, so the tincture just gets diluted anyway. I don't know if there's really a way to do it effectively without diluting it, other than the honey, which is the most effective method I've found.

          "Ive tried watering it down, 2 droppers of water to 2 droppers of tinc and mixed it in a glass and just drank it. All that did was give me stomach cramps for about 2 hours; not good either."

          You won't get any effect from swallowing it. The acids and enzymes in the stomach destroy Salvinorin-A in short order. It definitely must be absorbed in the mouth.
          • Re: best way to take/use tincture?

            Tue, August 9, 2005 - 3:37 PM
            Besides being way out of the way and expensive, the method of Tobacco soaked in tincature isn't smart because a cigarette stays lit until it's finished. This is not a good idea, especially without a sitter, unless you want cig burns on your face or hands.

            Like David said, unless you can make your own tincature for cheap, it doesn't make sense to try this method.

            Whatever method you do end up using, know that my thoughts and prayers are with you!!! Salvia is a Sacred Gift to us!!!

            Peace
            • Unsu...
               

              Re: best way to take/use tincture?

              Tue, August 9, 2005 - 6:45 PM
              Tinctures are very easy to make
              Get a grain alcohol like vodka
              which is the most popular for tinctures nowadays
              with a high proof
              some people use everclear if it is legal and sold in stories in your area
              take the fresh or dried leaves and for fresh you'd chop it into small pieces
              dried leaves you'd want to powder it or just crused it up really good.
              get a small jar or a big one
              put the herbs in and then the alcohol
              close and shake up daily for 2-3 weeks
              strain out the rest of the herb and try to sqeeze out all the juice
              The more herb u use the strong it is and when using very high proof alcohol
              keep in a dark cool place away from sunlight some people use amber jars to block out sunlight
              keep in mind when trying to inject by letting it sit in your mouth because now that will REALLY burn

              xo
  • Re: best way to take/use tincture?

    Wed, August 10, 2005 - 8:20 AM
    Once again because there are all the answers here:

    www.spiritplants.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php

    Since I can use this info to make my own tinc, I'll use a big dose w/ honey or pure hot water, and leave it in the back of the throat. I had to use a big dose because the small doses didn't work (just like you).
    Homemade tinc is made within 50 mins. start to finish. I buy the pure grain on the web albeit expensive. Some liquor stores have it but you have to ask...it's not 'shelved'.
    Use honey if you don't like bitter things. I have no problem enduring the taste as I was uplifted to a heaven state once on tinc...so now I associate the bitter with my heaven experience. Plus, I like bitter things eg. Bitters, Absinthe, Broccoli Robe, Stout beers, etc.

    Although I like it strait usually (BURN YES) my brother tried hot pure water so it was 20ml/20ml as said it didn't burn. To note - He's a big guy. * Dave's right I swallow the tincture within 12 minutes.
    Yea, don't drink it. The 95% eth is helping it get into your system via the mouth. The back of the throat did fine for me. I've tried tincture it many ways. The URL below has info see "Sublingual Dosing" The original post had info on moving the tongue up and down to help.

    My 1 homemade tinc dose: 3-4 grams of raw leaf reduced to 10ml-30ml would cost approx. $8 dollars WITH the cost of a bottle w/ eye dropper. I could reduce the cost buy buying in bulk at the SBC or finding cheaper 95% locally, or refining my method. But I have no problem w/ the low cost (less then half the price of Dan's EE) and the 50 minutes of prep time. Plus it's so fun to make this stuff. I still have several bottles left!

    www.spiritplants.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php

    • Unsu...
       

      Re: best way to take/use tincture?

      Wed, August 10, 2005 - 4:40 PM
      I've never heard of a tincture being done in 50 minutes but salvinorum A might very quickly get extracted.
      other solvents used in tinctures besides alcohol can be
      veg. glycerin
      apple cider venegar
      honey
      though the most effective in most cases are alcohol and perhaps veg. glycerin
      xo
      Liigiir
      • Re: best way to take/use tincture?

        Thu, August 11, 2005 - 7:24 PM
        50 min. or faster if I rush! You see the Salvinorin (if I understand the facts) is from the leaf trichomes which are on the outside and they simply wash off w/ 95% eth and heat. I don't think you even have to grind up the leaf much. That just adds more tars and/or waxes. If your solvent isn't effective then, yes, more time would be desired I would guess.

        Salvia leaf trichomes:
        evenmo.com/salvia-leaves-trichomes.html

        I use tinc because I've tried full-mouth quids w/ different vendor leafs (SBC and Sageman) but I never get past level 1-2. Note I am not too sensitive to the plant compaired to the average. Also, all that leaf in my mouth is less pleasant then some liquid. But to each his own. My brother is so sensitive that he can't use tinc, it's too strong so, leaf in a teabag or something would be better for him.
  • Re: best way to take/use tincture?

    Thu, August 11, 2005 - 6:51 PM
    There is also the option of simply placing dried leaves in the mouth, then moistening them with a bit of water (they rehydrate almost immediately) and parking them at the back of the tongue, squeezing them and allowing the bitter juices to flow slowly down the throat - swallowing occasionally and chewing from time to time. Swallow often enough that the saliva does not accumulate in the mouth. This bathes the most absorptive regions. When the first quid is spent (after 10 minutes or so), it can be discarded and more leaves added.

    Advantages to dried leaves... no need for alcohol, no fuss or muss, no burning. When the quid is parked at the back of the tongue, bitteness is minimized as well. Leaf quids used this way are a bit slower to take effect than tinc, but once the effects begin, they develop very quickly, say just a couple of minutes from threshhold effects to pronounced besagement. Effects from leaves can be quite intense when using the pharyngeal/throat absorption methods described above (this is also the way to go when using tinc).

    Honey is the diluting agent to use with tinc (microwave the honey in a shot glass for a *just* a couple of seconds heat the honey, temporarily making honey liquid like the tinc.) Then add the tinc to the warm liquid honey, and the tinc/honey mixes very easily. Finally, let the shot glass containing the tinc/honey sit for a few minutes, and the green elixir will thicken as the honey cools. This produces a good serving which can be placed close by, and consumed when one is ready.
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: best way to take/use tincture?

      Thu, August 11, 2005 - 10:50 PM
      There sure are a lot of knowledgeable persons in this group and I thank everyone for sharing :)
      I've read a couple people speaking of the "microwave"
      although I have been known to use the device to eat
      I would like to dissuade persons from microwaving honey
      honey is really a precious thing and microwaving can destroy many constituents in it
      perhaps a metal spoon held a coupl inches above a flame or stove would work better
      my salvia is in the mail I can't wait
      xo
      Liigiir
      • Re: best way to take/use tincture?

        Tue, August 30, 2005 - 10:24 AM
        I would advise against using the microwve for ANYTHING. Especially plant material. Microwaves vibrate water molecules violently, causing cell walls to break down. Someone said they put tincture in a microwave above i believe, and tell me if im wrong.......but i would never put a solvent in a microwave for fear of some ill event or explosion.
        The stove doesn't take that long to boil water. Good things come to those who wait. Like clean slow-boiled life giving H2O.
        To prepare honey to be added to a tincture.....take a small amount of boiling or near boiling water, and add it to the honey slowly while stirring untill it is liquid enough to suit you conpsumption needs.
        This is how i prepare the honey for my beloved honey papers, except i dilute the honey more.(soak the thinnest rolling paper syou can find in the honey water and let sit for a day or so.....if it is too sticky, ad a few drops of water and scrape the honey off, plenty will have soaken into the paper by then. Slow burning, and not so harsh as youd imagine)
        I am yet to use an extract or a tincture just salvia...
        my ideal experience would include me remoisting a teabag of salvia in a bit of hot water and keeping it in my mouth, under my tongue, letting the juices soak into my mouth and throat. When i feel the first tingle I proceed to rip a few bong packs of salvia and just listen to my heart beat while holding my breath for 30 seconds. Break through to a meditative state and stay that way until time has passed you by and you wake up in another life...your life....and realize 15 minutes has just passed. Likening your existence to the blink of an eye.
  • Re: best way to take/use tincture?

    Sat, August 20, 2005 - 10:31 AM
    I started using tincture recently, and had a few hit-and-miss experiences with it. After several attempts, I've got it working consistently. I'll go through the procedure, and maybe some aspect of the description will help.

    After brushing the top and bottom of my tongue, and rinsing for at least 30 second with Listerine, I'm ready to go. Before dosing, it's important to clear as much saliva from your mouth as possible. Salvia, in a tincture at least, apparently doesn't like saliva.

    I use a staggered dose method. If I'm planning on taking four dropper loads, I'll split them across three doses taken over a fifteen minute period of time, holding each dose for four minutes, and wasting no time between swallowing and taking the next spoonful. I wait to mix each dose until I’m ready to take it.

    If you are going to dilute it, I’d suggest using as little water as possible. I've tried a 1:1 dose before, with no results. Now I use only a few drops of water for each dropper load. Make sure the water is very hot... as hot as you'd use for tea or coffee. The tincture swarms when hot water is added. Oh, and definitely use a different dropper to add the water. I've read that any water making its way into the bottle of tincture will cause funky results in the liquid.

    I use a tablespoon, which is somewhat difficult when taking that third dose, but it helps insure you're getting all the lovely little bits of Salvia. I used a shot glass or a small glass cup the first few times, and with each attempt I noticed quite a bit of green residue dried on the sides of the glass the next day. What a waste. A spoon works much better. I pour the liquid under my tongue, and then wipe the spoon clean with my upper lip.

    Usually between the second and third dose, I'm feeling it.

    One other thing I do is tie one on before I start dosing. Nothing like a few good beers or a martini or two to get things going. I've noticed a distinct difference between going in sober and going in with a little vodka buzz. That part might help dull the pain of the tincture, too.

    Hope this helps. Good luck, and best wishes.

    Smoke Monkey
  • Re: best way to take/use tincture?

    Wed, August 31, 2005 - 10:08 PM
    i just spent like 3 hours writing a post to this topic and when i went to send it said tribe logs u out after one hour for security . when i logged back in the page was gone . what the hell is that ! i could just about cry !
    • Re: best way to take/use tincture?

      Thu, September 1, 2005 - 5:54 AM
      Sorry plant; I know the feeling. I've learned to copy long posts to a text file (I use Notepad) and save it periodically, or simply key them into Notepad first then paste them into the text box before posting. That way I have a copy on my C: drive in case the web site craters.

      I have a file called temp.txt that I use over and over for posting messages and such.
      • Re: best way to take/use tincture?

        Thu, September 1, 2005 - 7:57 AM
        Yeah that's happened to me too. <swearing & frustration>

        Now I use 'Word' like Gem E, which also provides spellcheck.

        Don't let the system keep you silent though. You've got me curious into what you were going to say.
        • Re: best way to take/use tincture?

          Tue, September 20, 2005 - 8:28 PM
          I dont like smoke, so the first salvia I worked with was in tincture form. I watered it down as reccommended and it was still hard to hold. for me, the burning sensation creates alot of saliva, and so I was actually limited to how much I could take (I think Ive gotten up to 4 droppers with 3 water. Thats a mouthful! Although its reccommended to keep it under your tongue, the medicine can permiate through the gums and side of mouth as well. Then I read in here about the honey. It works pretty good. The thing about the tincture is the experience lasts 30-50 minutes where smoking it (even 15-20x) lasts just minutes. THe learning (at least for me) is enhanced by the longer trip.
          • Re: best way to take/use tincture?

            Wed, September 21, 2005 - 7:47 PM
            Also try holding the tinc at the back of the tongue, while slowly swallowing the tinc, bit by tiny bit. This inhibits the saliva buildup; also the area behind the rear tongue is way more absorbant (& less sensitive) than sublingual. Allow the tiny amounts of tinc/honey to flow slowly down into the upper throat if possible before swallowing them. Allow about 10 minutes or so to slowly swallow the entire load of tinc/honey. This is more comfortable, more effective, and very little saliva builds up in the mouth, resulting in more concentrated tinc while it is held in the mouth.

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